美国总统候选人布什与克里第三场电视辩论

TheThirdBush-KerryPresidentialDebate

October13,20__

ArizonaStateUniversityTempe,AZ

美国当地时间10月13日晚上9时（北京时间14日上午9时），美国总统布什与总统候选人克里在亚利桑那州立大学举行第三场电视辩论，辩论的焦点问题是美国国内问题，涉及就业、医疗、堕胎等百姓生活话题。第三次辩论由哥伦比亚广播公司(C)王牌主持人鲍勃希弗(BOBSCHIEFFER)主持。布什与克里在进行了前两场辩论以后，支持率相当，大选进入白热化阶段。

SCHIEFFER:GoodeveningfromArizonaStateUniversityinTempe,Arizona.I’mBobSchiefferofCNews.Iwanttowelcomeyoutothethirdandlastofthe20__debatesbetweenPresidentGeorgeBushandSenatorJohnKerry.

AsJimLehrertoldyoubeforethefirstone,thesedebatesareooredbytheCommiiononPresidentialDebates.

Tonightthetopicwillbedomesticaffairs,buttheformatwillbethesameasthatfirstdebate.I’llmoderateourdiscuionunderdetailedrulesagreedtobythecandidates,butthequestioandtheareastobecoveredwerechosenbyme.Ihavenottoldthecandidatesoranyoneelsewhattheyare.

Torefreshyourmemoryontherules,Iwillaskaquestion.Thecandidateisallowedtwominutestoawer.Hisoonentthenhasaminuteandahalftoofferarebuttal.

Atmydiscretion,Icanextendthediscuionbyofferingeachcandidateanadditional30seconds.

Agreenlightwillcomeontosignalthecandidatehas30secondsleft.Ayellowlightsignals15secondsleft.Aredlightmeafivesecondsleft.

Thereisalsoabuzzer,ifitisneeded.

Thecandidatesmaynotquestioneachotherdirectly.Therearenoopeningstatements,buttherewillbetwo-minuteclosingstatements.

Thereisanaudienceheretonight,buttheyhaveagreedtoremainsilent,exceptforrightnow,whentheyjoinmeinwelcomingPresidentGeorgeBushandSenatorJohnKerry.

(ALAUSE)

Gentlemen,welcometoyouboth.

Bycointo,thefirstquestiongoestoSenatorKerry.

Senator,IwanttosetthestageforthisdiscuionbyaskingthequestionthatIthinkhangsoverallofourpoliticstodayandisprobablyonthemindsofmanypeoplewatchingthisdebatetonight.

Andthatis,willourchildrenandgrandchildreneverliveinaworldassafeandsecureastheworldinwhichwegrewup?

KERRY:Well,firstofall,Bob,thankyouformoderatingtonight.

Thankyou,ArizonaState,forwelcomingus.

AndthankyoutothePresidentialCommiionforundertakingthisenormoustask.We’reproudtobehere.

Mr.President,I’mgladtobeherewithyouagaintosharesimilaritiesanddifferenceswiththeAmericanpeople.

Willweeverbesafeandsecureagain?Yes.Weaolutelymustbe.That’sthegoal.

Now,howdoweachieveitisthemostcriticalcomponentofit.

Ibelievethatthispresident,regrettably,rushedusintoawar,madedecisioaboutforeignpolicy,pushedalliancesaway.And,asaresult,Americaisnowbearingthisextraordinaryburdenwherewearenotassafeasweoughttobe.

Themeasurementisnot:Arewesafer?Themeasurementis:Areweassafeasweoughttobe?Andthereareahostofoptiothatthispresidenthadavailabletohim,likemakingsurethatatallourportsinAmericacontainersareiected.Only95percentofthem--95percentcomeintodayuniected.That’snotgoodenough.

Peoplewhoflyonairplanestoday,thecargoholdisnotX-rayed,butthebaggageis.That’snotgoodenough.Firehousesdon’thaveenoughfirefightersinthem.PoliceofficersarebeingcutfromthestreetsofAmericabecausethepresidentdecidedtocuttheCOprogram.

Sowecandoabetterjobofhomelandsecurity.Icandoabetterjobofwagingasmarter,moreeffectivewaronterrorandguaranteethatwewillgoaftertheterrorists.

Iwillhuntthemdown,andwe’llkillthem,we’llcapturethem.

We’lldowhateverisnecearytobesafe.

ButIpledgethistoyou,America:IwilldoitinthewaythatFranklinRooseveltandRonaldReaganandJohnKeedyandothersdid,wherewebuildthestrongestalliances,wheretheworldjoitogether,wherewehavethebestintelligenceandwhereweareable,ultimately,tobemoresafeandsecure.

SCHIEFFER:Mr.President,youhave90seconds.

BUSH:Thankyouverymuch.

IwanttothankArizonaStateaswell.

Yes,wecanbesafeandsecure,ifwestayontheoffeeagaittheterroristsandifwereadfreedomandlibertyaroundtheworld.

IhavegotacompreheivestrategytonotonlychasedowntheAlQaida,whereveritexists--andwe’remakingprogrethree-quartersofAlQaidaleadershavebeenbroughttojustice--buttomakesurethatcountriesthatharborterroristsareheldtoaccount.

AsaresultofsecuringourselvesandriddingtheTalibanoutofAfghanistan,theAfghanpeoplehadelectiothisweekend.Andthefirstvoterwasa19-year-oldwoman.Thinkaboutthat.Freedomisonthemarch.

WeheldtoaccountaterroristregimeinSaddamHuein.

Inotherwords,inordertomakesurewe’resecure,theremustbeacompreheiveplan.Myoonentjustthisweekendtalkedabouthowterrorismcouldbereducedtoanuisance,comparingittoprostitution,illegalgambling.Ithinkthatattitudeandthatpointofviewisdangerous.Idon’tthinkyoucansecureAmericaforthelongrunifyoudon’thaveacompreheiveviewastohowtodefeatthesepeople.

Athome,we’lldoeverythingwecantoprotectthehomeland.Isignedthehomelandsecuritybilltobetteralignouraetsandresources.Myoonentvotedagaitit.

We’redoingeverythingwecantoprotectourbordersandports.

Butaolutelywecanbesecureinthelongrun.Itjusttakesgood,strongleadership.

SCHIEFFER:Anythingtoadd,SenatorKerry?

KERRY:Yes.WhenthepresidenthadanoortunitytocaptureorkillOsamabinLaden,hetookhisfocusoffofthem,outsourcedthejobtoAfghanwarlords,andOsamabinLadenescaped.

SixmonthsafterhesaidOsamabinLadenmustbecaughtdeadoralive,thispresidentwasasked,"WhereisOsamabinLaden?"Hesaid,"Idon’tknow.Idon’treallythinkabouthimverymuch.I’mnotthatconcerned."

Weneedapresidentwhostaysdeadlyfocusedontherealwaronterror.

SCHIEFFER:Mr.President?

BUSH:Gosh,Ijustdon’tthinkIeversaidI’mnotworriedaboutOsamabinLaden.It’skindofoneofthoseexaggeratio.

Ofcoursewe’reworriedaboutOsamabinLaden.We’reonthehuntafterOsamabinLaden.We’reusingeveryaetatourdiosaltogetOsamabinLaden.

Myoonentsaidthiswarisamatterofintelligenceandlawenforcement.No,thiswarisamatterofusingeveryaetatourdiosaltokeeptheAmericanpeopleprotected.

SCHIEFFER:Newquestion,Mr.President,toyou.

Wearetalkingaboutprotectingourselvesfromtheunexpected,butthefluseasonissuddenlyuponus.Flukillsthousandsofpeopleeveryyear.

Suddenlywefindourselveswithasevereshortageoffluvaccine.Howdidthathaen?

BUSH:Bob,werelieduponacompanyoutofEnglandtoprovideabouthalfofthefluvaccinesfortheUnitedStatescitizen,anditturnedoutthatthevaccinetheywereproducingwascontaminated.Andsowetooktherightactionanddidn’tallowcontaminatedmedicineintoourcountry.We’reworkingwithCanadatohopefully--thatthey’llproducea--helpusrealizethevaccinenecearytomakesureourcitizehavegotfluvaccinatioduringthisupcomingseason.

MycalltoourfellowAmericaisifyou’rehealthy,ifyou’reyounger,don’tgetaflushotthisyear.Helpusprioritizethosewhoneedtogettheflushot,theelderlyandtheyoung.

TheCDC,reoibleforhealthintheUnitedStates,issettingthoseprioritiesandisallocatingthefluvaccineaccordingly.

Ihaven’tgottenaflushot,andIdon’tintendtobecauseIwa nttomakesurethosewhoaremostvulnerablegettreated.

WehaveaproblemwithlitigationintheUnitedStatesofAmerica.Vaccinemanufacturersareworriedaboutgettingsued,andthereforetheyhavebackedofffromprovidingthiskindofvaccine.

OneofthereasoI’msuchastrongbelieverinlegalreformissothatpeoplearen’tafraidofproducingaproductthatisnecearyforthehealthofourcitizeandthenendupgettingsuedinacourtoflaw.

Butthebestthingwecandonow,Bob,giventhecircumstanceswiththecompanyinEnglandisforthoseofuswhoareyoungerandhealthy,don’tgetaflushot.

SCHIEFFER:SenatorKerry?

KERRY:ThisreallyunderscorestheproblemwiththeAmericanhealth-caresystem.It’snotworkingfortheAmericanfamily.Andit’sgottenworseunderPresidentBushoverthecourseofthelastyears.

FivemillionAmericahavelosttheirhealthiuranceinthiscountry.You’vegotaboutamillionrighthereinArizona,justshy,950,000,whohavenohealthiuranceatall.82,000ArizonialosttheirhealthiuranceunderPresidentBush’swatch.223,000kidsinArizonahavenohealthiuranceatall.

Allacroourcountry--gotoOhio,1.4millionOhioahavenohealthiurance,__,000ofthemlostitunderPresidentBush;Wiscoin,82,000WiscoiniteslostitunderPresidentBush.

ThispresidenthasturnedhisbackonthewellneofAmerica.Andthereisnosystem.Infact,it’sstartingtofallapartnotbecauseoflawsuits--thoughtheyareaproblem,andJohnEdwardsandIarecommittedtofixingthem--butbecauseofthelargeriuethatwedon’tcoverAmerica.

Childrenacroourcountrydon’thavehealthcare.We’retherichestcountryonthefaceoftheplanet,theonlyindustrializednationintheworldnottodoit.

IhaveaplantocoverallAmerica.We’regoingtomakeitaffordableandacceible.We’regoingtoleteverybodybuyintothesamehealth-careplansenatorsandcongremengivethemselves.

SCHIEFFER:Mr.President,wouldyouliketoaddsomething?

BUSH:Iwould.Thankyou.

Iwanttoremindpeoplelisteningtonightthataplanisnotalitanyofcomplaints,andaplanisnottolayoutprogramsthatyoucan’tpayfor.

Hejustsaidhewantseverybodytobeabletobuyintothesameplanthatsenatorsandcongremenget.Thatcoststhegovernment$7,700perfamily.IfeveryfamilyinAmericasignedup,likethesenatorsuggested,ifwouldcostus$5trillionover10years.

It’sanemptypromise.It’scalledbaitandswitch.

SCHIEFFER:Time’sup.

BUSH:Thankyou.

KERRY:Actually,it’snotanemptypromise.

It’sreallyinteresting,becausethepresidentusedthatveryplanasareasonforseniorstoaccepthisprescriptiondrugplan.Hesaid,ifit’sgoodenoughforthecongremenandsenatorstohavechoice,seniorsoughttohavechoice.

Whatwedoiswehavechoice.IchooseBlueCro/BlueShield.Othersenators,othercongremenchooseotherprograms.

Butthefactis,we’regoingtohelpAmericabeabletobuyintoit.Thosethatcanafforditaregoingtobuyinthemselves.We’renotgivingthisawayfornothing.

SCHIEFFER:Allright.

SenatorKerry,anewquestion.Let’stalkabouteconomicsecurity.Youpledgedduringthelastdebatethatyouwouldnotraisetaxesonthosemakinglethan$200,000ayear.Butthepriceofeverythingisgoingup,andweallknowit.Health-carecosts,asyouaretalkingabout,isskyrocketing,thecostofthewar.

Myquestionis,howcanyouoranypresident,whoeveriselectednexttime,keepthatpledgewithoutruingthiscountrydeeperintodebtandpaingonmoreofthebillsthatwe’reruinguptoourchildren?

KERRY:I’lltellyouexactlyhowIcandoit:byreitatingwhatPresidentBushtookaway,whichiscalledpayasyougo.

Duringthe1990s,wehadpay-as-you-gorules.IfyouweregoingtopasomethingintheCongre,youhadtoshowwhereyouaregoingtopayforitandhow.

PresidentBu shhastaken--he’stheonlypresidentinhistorytodothis.He’salsotheonlypresidentin72yearstolosejo--1.6millionjolost.He’stheonlypresidenttohaveincomesoffamiliesgodownforthelastthreeyeartheonlypresidenttoseeexportsgodowtheonlypresidenttoseethelowestlevelofbusineinvestmentinourcountryasitistoday.

Now,I’mgoingtoreversethat.I’mgoingtochangethat.We’regoingtorestorethefiscaldisciplinewehadinthe1990s.

EveryplanthatIhavelaidout--myhealth-careplan,myplanforeducation,myplanforkidstobeabletogetbettercollegeloa--I’veshownexactlyhowI’mgoingtopayforthose.

Andwestart--wedon’tdoitexclusively--butwestartbyrollingbackGeorgeBush’sunaffordabletaxcutforthewealthiestpeople,peopleearningmorethan$200,000ayear,andwepa,hopefully,theMcCain-KerryCommiionwhichidentifiedsome$60billionthatwecanget.

WeshuttheloopholewhichhasAmericanworkersactuallysuidizingthelooftheirownjob.Theyjustpaedanexpaionofthatloopholeinthelastfewdays:$43billionofgiveaways,includingfavorstotheoilandgasindustryandthepeopleimportingceilingfafromChina.

I’mgoingtostandupandfightfortheAmericanworker.AndIamgoingtodoitinawaythat’sfiscallysound.IshowhowIpayforthehealthcare,howwepayfortheeducation.

Ihaveamanufacturingjocredit.Wepayforitbyshuttingthatloopholeoverseas.Weraisethestudentloa.Ipayforitbychangingtherelatiohipwiththebanks.

Thispresidenthasneveroncevetoedonebill;thefirstpresidentinahundredyearsnottodothat.

SCHIEFFER:Mr.President?

BUSH:Well,hisrhetoricdoe’tmatchhisrecord.

Hebeenasenatorfor20years.Hevotedtoincreasetaxes98times.Whentheytriedtoreducetaxes,hevotedagaitthat127times.Hetalksaboutbeingafiscalcoervative,orfiscallysound,buthevotedover--hevoted277timestowaivethebudgetca,whichwouldhavecostthetaxpayers$4.2trillion.

HetalksaboutPAYGO.I’lltellyouwhatPAYGOmea,whenyou’reasenatorfromMaachusetts,whenyou’reacolleagueofTedKeedy,paygomea:Youpay,andhegoesaheadandends.

He’sproposed$2.2trillionofnewending,andyettheso-calledtaxontherich,whichisalsoataxonmanysmall-busineownersinAmerica,raises$600millionbyouraccount--billion,$800billionbyhisaccount.

Thereisataxgap.Andguewhousuallyendsupfillingthetaxgap?Themiddlecla.

Iproposeadetailedbudget,Bob.IsentupmybudgetmantotheCongre,andhesays,here’showwe’regoingtoreducethedeficitinhalfbyfiveyears.Itrequirespro-growthpoliciesthatgrowoureconomyandfiscalsanityinthehallsofCongre.

SCHIEFFER:Let’sgotoanewquestion,Mr.President.Twominutes.Andlet’scontinueonjo.

Youknow,thereareallkindofstatisticsoutthere,butIwanttobringitdowntoanindividual.

Mr.President,whatdoyousaytosomeoneinthiscountrywhohaslosthisjobtosomeoneoverseaswho’sbeingpaidafractionofwhatthatjobpaidhereintheUnitedStates?

BUSH:I’dsay,Bob,I’vegotpoliciestocontinuetogrowoureconomyandcreatethejoofthe21stcentury.Andhere’ssomehelpforyoutogogetaneducation.Here’ssomehelpforyoutogotoacommunitycollege.

We’veexpandedtradeadjustmentaistance.Wewanttohelppayforyoutogaintheskillsnecearytofillthejoofthe21stcentury.

Youknow,there’salotoftalkabouthowtokeeptheeconomygrowing.Wetalkaboutfiscalmatters.ButperhathebestwaytokeepjohereinAmericaandtokeepthiseconomygrowingistomakesureoureducationsystemworks.

IwenttoWashingtontosolveproblems.AndIsawaprobleminthepubliceducationsysteminAmerica.Theywerejustshufflingtoomanykidsthroughthesystem,yearafteryear,gradeaftergrade,withoutlearningthebasics.

Andsowesaid:Let’sraisethestandard s.We’reendingmoremoney,butlet’sraisethestandardsandmeasureearlyandsolveproblemsnow,beforeit’stoolate.

No,educationishowtohelpthepersonwho’slostajob.Educationishowtomakesurewe’vegotaworkforcethat’sproductiveandcompetitive.

Gotfourmoreyears,I’vegotmoretodotocontinuetoraisestandards,tocontinuetorewardteachersandschooldistrictsthatareworking,toemphasizemathandscienceintheclarooms,tocontinuetoexpandPellGrantstomakesurethatpeoplehaveanoortunitytostarttheircareerwithacollegediploma.

Andsothepersonyoutalkedto,Isay,here’ssomehelp,here’ssometradeadjustmentaistancemoneyforyoutogoacommunitycollegeinyourneighborhood,acommunitycollegewhichisprovidingtheskillsnecearytofillthejoofthe21stcentury.Andthat’swhatIwouldsaytothatperson.

SCHIEFFER:SenatorKerry?

KERRY:Iwantyoutonoticehowthepresidentswitchedawayfromjoandstartedtalkingabouteducationprincipally.

Letmecomebackinonemomenttothat,butIwanttoeakforasecond,ifIcan,towhatthepresidentsaidaboutfiscalreoibility.

BeinglecturedbythepresidentonfiscalreoibilityisalittlebitlikeTonySopranotalkingtomeaboutlawandorderinthiscountry.

(LAUGHTER)

Thispresidenthastakena$5.6trillionsurplusandturneditintodeficitsasfarastheeyecansee.Health-carecostsfortheaverageAmericanhavegoneup64percent;tuitiohavegoneup35percent;gasolinepricesup30percent;Medicarepremiumswentup17percentafewdaysago;prescriptiondrugsareup12percentayear.

Butguewhat,America?ThewagesofAmericahavegonedown.ThejothatarebeingcreatedinArizonarightnowarepayingabout$13,700lethanthejothatwe’relosing.

Andthepresidentjustwalksonbythisproblem.Thefactisthathe’scutjob-trainingmoney.$1billionwascut.Theyonlyaddedalittlebitbackthisyearbecauseit’sanelectionyear.

They’vecutthePellGrantsandthePerkiloatohelpkidsbeabletogotocollege.

They’vecutthetrainingmoney.They’vewoundupnotevenextendingunemploymentbenefitsandnotevenextendinghealthcaretothosepeoplewhoareunemployed.

I’mgoingtodothosethings,becausethat’swhat’srightinAmerica:Helpworkerstotraitionineveryreect.

SCHIEFFER:Newquestiontoyou,SenatorKerry,twominutes.Andit’sstillonjo.Youknow,manyexpertssaythatapresidentreallydoe’thavemuchcontroloverjo.Forexample,ifsomeoneinventsamachinethatdoestheworkoffivepeople,that’sprogre.That’snotthepresident’sfault.

SoIaskyou,isitfairtoblametheadministrationentirelyforthisloofjo?

KERRY:Idon’tblamethementirelyforit.Iblamethepresidentforthethingsthepresidentcoulddothathasanimpactonit.

Outsourcingisgoingtohaen.I’veacknowledgedthatinunionhallsacrothecountry.I’vehadshopstewardsstandupandsay,"Willyoupromisemeyou’regoingtostopallthisoutsourcing?"AndI’velookedthemintheeyeandI’vesaid,"No,Ican’tdothat."

WhatIcanpromiseyouisthatIwillmaketheplayingfieldasfairaspoible,thatIwill,foritance,makecertainthatwithreecttothetaxsystemthatyouasaworkerinAmericaarenotsuidizingtheloofyourjob.

Today,ifyou’reanAmericanbusine,youactuallygetabenefitforgoingoverseas.Yougettodeferyourtaxes.

Soifyou’relookingatacompetitiveworld,yousaytoyourself,"Hey,IdobetteroverseasthanIdohereinAmerica."

That’snotsmart.Idon’twantAmericanworkerssuidizingthelooftheirownjob.AndwhenI’mpresident,we’regoingtoshutthatloopholeinananosecondandwe’regoingtousethatmoneytolowercorporatetaxratesinAmericaforallcorporatio,5percent.Andwe’regoingtohaveaman ufacturingjocreditandajobhiringcreditsoweactuallyhelppeoplebeabletohirehere.

Thesecondthingthatwecandoisprovideafairtradeplayingfield.Thispresidentdidn’tstandupforBoeingwhenAirbuswasviolatinginternationalrulesandsuidies.HediscoveredBoeingduringthecourseofthiscampaignafterI’dbeentalkingaboutitformonths.

ThefactisthatthepresidenthadanoortunitytostandupandtakeonChinaforcurrencymanipulation.Therearecompaniesthatwantedtopetitiontheadministration.Theyweretold:Don’tevenbother;we’renotgoingtolistentoit.

Thefactisthattherehavebeenmarketsshuttousthatwehaven’tstoodupandfoughtfor.I’mgoingtofightforafairtradeplayingfieldfortheAmericanworker.AndIwillfightfortheAmericanworkerjustashardasIfightformyownjob.That’swhattheAmericanworkerwants.Andifwedothat,wecanhaveanimpact.

Plus,weneedfiscaldiscipline.Restorefiscaldiscipline,we’lldoalotbetter.

SCHIEFFER:Mr.President?

BUSH:Whew!

LetmestartwiththePellGrants.Inhislastlitanyofmitatements.HesaidwecutPellGrants.We’veincreasedPellGrantsbyamillionstudents.That’safact.

Youknow,hetalkstotheworkers.Letmetalktotheworkers.

You’vegotmoremoneyinyourpocketasaresultofthetaxreliefwepaedandheoosed.

Ifyouhaveachild,yougota$1,000childcredit.That’smoneyinyourpocket.

Ifyou’remarried,wereducedthemarriagepenalty.Thecodeoughttoencouragemarriage,notdiscouragemarriage.

Wecreateda10percentbrackettohelplower-incomeAmerica.Afamilyoffourmaking$40,000receivedabout$1,700intaxrelief.

It’syourmoney.Thewaymyoonenttalks,hesaid,"We’regoingtoendthegovernment’smoney."No,we’reendingyourmoney.Andwhenyouhavemoremoneyinyourpocket,you’reabletobetteraffordthingsyouwant.

Ibelievetheroleofgovernmentistostandsidebysidewithourcitizetohelpthemrealizetheirdreams,nottellcitizehowtolivetheirlives.

Myoonenttalksaboutfiscalsanity.HisrecordintheUnitedStatesSenatedoesnotmatchhisrhetoric.

Hevotedtoincreasetaxes98timesandtobustthebudget277times.

SCHIEFFER:SenatorKerry?

KERRY:Bob,anybodycanplaywiththesevotes.Everybodyknowsthat.

Ihavesuortedorvotedfortaxcutsover600times.Ibrokewithmypartyinordertobalancethebudget,andRonaldReagansignedintolawthetaxcutthatwevotedfor.IvotedforIRAtaxcuts.Ivotedforsmall-businetaxcuts.

ButyouknowwhythePellGrantshavegoneupintheirnumbers?Becausemorepeoplequalifyforthembecausetheydon’thavemoney.

Butthey’renotgettingthe$5,100thepresidentpromisedthem.They’regettinglemoney.

Wehavemorepeoplewhoqualify.That’snotwhatwewant.

BUSH:Senator,noone’splayingwithyourvotes.Youvotedtoincreasetaxes98times.Whentheyvoted--whentheyproposedreducingtaxes,youvotedagaitit126times.

Hevotedtoviolatethebudgetcap277times.Youknow,there’samainstreaminAmericanpoliticsandyousitrightonthefarleftbank.Asamatteroffact,yourrecordissuchthatTedKeedy,yourcolleague,isthecoervativesenatorfromMaachusetts.

SCHIEFFER:Mr.President,let’sgetbacktoeconomiciues.Butlet’sshifttosomeotherquestiohere.

Bothofyouareoosedtogaymarriage.Buttounderstandhowyouhavecometothatconclusion,Iwanttoaskyouamorebasicquestion.Doyoubelievehomosexualityisachoice?

BUSH:Youknow,Bob,Idon’tknow.Ijustdon’tknow.IdoknowthatwehaveachoicetomakeinAmericaandthatistotreatpeoplewithtoleranceandreectanddignity.It’simportantthatwedothat.

AndIalsoknowinafreesocietypeople,coentingadultscanlivethewaytheywanttolive.

Andthat’stobehonored.

But aswereectsomeone’srights,andasweprofetolerance,weshouldn’tchange--orhavetochange--ourbasicviewsonthesanctityofmarriage.Ibelieveinthesanctityofmarriage.Ithinkit’sveryimportantthatweprotectmarriageasanititution,betweenamanandawoman.

Iproposedacotitutionalamendment.ThereasonIdidsowasbecauseIwasworriedthatactivistjudgesareactuallydefiningthedefinitionofmarriage,andthesurestwaytoprotectmarriagebetweenamanandwomanistoamendtheCotitution.

Ithasalsothebenefitofallowingcitizetoparticipateintheproce.Afterall,whenyouamendtheCotitution,statelegislaturesmustparticipateintheratificationoftheCotitution.

I’mdeeplyconcernedthatjudgesaremakingthosedecisioandnotthecitizenryoftheUnitedStates.Youknow,CongrepaedalawcalledDOMA,theDefeeofMarriageAct.

Myoonentwasagaitit.Itbasicallyprotectedstatesfromtheactionofonestatetoanother.Italsodefinedmarriageasbetweenamanandwoman.

ButI’mconcernedthatthatwillgetoverturned.Andifitgetsoverturned,thenwe’llendupwithmarriagebeingdefinedbycourts,andIdon’tthinkthat’sinournation’sinterests.

SCHIEFFER:SenatorKerry?

KERRY:We’reallGod’schildren,Bob.AndIthinkifyouweretotalktoDickCheney’sdaughter,whoisaleian,shewouldtellyouthatshe’sbeingwhoshewas,she’sbeingwhoshewasbornas.

Ithinkifyoutalktoanybody,it’snotchoice.I’vemetpeoplewhostruggledwiththisforyears,peoplewhowereinamarriagebecausetheywerelivingasortofconvention,andtheystruggledwithit.

AndI’vemetwiveswhoaresuortiveoftheirhuandsorviceversawhentheyfinallysortofbrokeoutandallowedthemselvestolivewhotheywere,whotheyfeltGodhadmadethem.

Ithinkwehavetoreectthat.

ThepresidentandIsharethebeliefthatmarriageisbetweenamanandawoman.Ibelievethat.Ibelievemarriageisbetweenamanandawoman.

ButIalsobelievethatbecausewearetheUnitedStatesofAmerica,we’reacountrywithagreat,uelievableCotitution,withrightsthatweaffordpeople,thatyoucan’tdiscriminateintheworkplace.Youcan’tdiscriminateintherightsthatyouaffordpeople.

Youcan’tdisallowsomeonetherighttovisittheirpartnerinahoital.Youhavetoallowpeopletotraferproperty,whichiswhyI’mforpartnershiprightsandsoforth.

Now,withreecttoDOMAandthemarriagelaws,thestateshavealwaysbeenabletomanagethoselaws.Andthey’reprovingtoday,everystate,thattheycanmanagethemadequately.

SCHIEFFER:SenatorKerry,anewquestionforyou.

TheNewYorkTimesreportsthatsomeCatholicarchbishoaretellingtheirchurchmembersthatitwouldbeasintovoteforacandidatelikeyoubecauseyousuortawoman’srighttochooseanabortionandunlimitedstem-cellresearch.

Whatisyourreactiontothat?

KERRY:Ireecttheirviews.Icompletelyreecttheirviews.IamaCatholic.AndIgrewuplearninghowtoreectthoseviews.ButIdisagreewiththem,asdomany.

IbelievethatIcan’tlegislateortrafertoanotherAmericancitizenmyarticleoffaith.WhatisanarticleoffaithformeisnotsomethingthatIcanlegislateonsomebodywhodoe’tsharethatarticleoffaith.

Ibelievethatchoiceisawoman’schoice.It’sbetweenawoman,Godandherdoctor.Andthat’swhyIsuortthat.

Now,IwillnotallowsomebodytocomeinandchangeRoev.Wade.

Thepresidenthasneversaidwhetherornothewoulddothat.Butweknowfromthepeoplehe’striedtoaointtothecourthewantsto.

Iwillnot.IwilldefendtherightofRoev.Wade.

Now,withreecttoreligion,youknow,asIsaid,IgrewupaCatholic.Iwasanaltarboy.Iknowthatthroughoutmylifethishasmadeadifferencetome.

AndasPresidentKeedysaidwhenheranforpresident,hesaid,"I’mnotruingtobeaCathol icpresident.I’mruingtobeapresidentwhohaetobeCatholic."

MyfaithaffectseverythingthatIdo,intruth.There’sagreatpaageoftheBiblethatsays,"Whatdoesitmean,mybrother,tosayyouhavefaithiftherearenodeeds?Faithwithoutworksisdead."

AndIthinkthateverythingyoudoinpubliclifehastobeguidedbyyourfaith,affectedbyyourfaith,butwithouttraferringitinanyofficialwaytootherpeople.

That’swhyIfightagaitpoverty.That’swhyIfighttocleanuptheenvironmentandprotectthisearth.

That’swhyIfightforequalityandjustice.Allofthosethingscomeoutofthatfundamentalteachingandbeliefoffaith.

ButIknowthis,thatPresidentKeedyinhisinauguraladdretoldallofusthathereonEarth,God’sworkmusttrulybeourown.Andthat’swhatwehaveto--Ithinkthat’sthetestofpublicservice.

SCHIEFFER:Mr.President?

BUSH:Ithinkit’simportanttopromoteacultureoflife.Ithinkahoitablesocietyisasocietywhereeverybeingcountsandeverypersonmatters.Ibelievetheidealworldisoneinwhicheverychildisprotectedinlawandwelcomedtolife.Iunderstandthere’sgreatdifferencesonthisiueofabortion,butIbelievereasonablepeoplecancometogetherandputgoodlawinplacethatwillhelpreducethenumberofabortio.

Take,forexample,thebanonpartialbirthabortion.It’sabrutalpractice.PeoplefrombothpoliticalpartiescametogetherinthehallsofCongreandvotedoverwhelminglytobanthatpractice.Itmadealotofsee.Myoonent,inthathe’soutofthemaitream,votedagaitthatlaw.

WhatI’msayingis,isthataswepromotelifeandpromoteacultureoflife,surelytherearewayswecanworktogethertoreducethenumberofabortio:continuetopromoteadoptionlaws--it’sagreatalternativetoabortion--continuetofundandpromotematernitygrouphomeIwillcontinuetopromoteatinenceprograms.

Thelastdebate,myoonentsaidhiswifewasinvolvedwiththoseprograms.That’sgreat.Iareciatethatverymuch.Allofusoughttobeinvolvedwithprogramsthatprovideaviablealternativetoabortion.

SCHIEFFER:Mr.President,let’shaveanewquestion.Itgoestoyou.Andlet’sgetbacktoeconomiciues.

Healthiurancecostshaverisenover36percentoverthelastfouryearsaccordingtoTheWashingtonPost.We’repayingmore.We’regettingle.

Iwouldliketoaskyou:Whobearsreoibilityforthis?Isitthegovernment?Isittheiurancecompanies?Isitthelawyers?Isitthedoctors?Isittheadministration?

BUSH:Gosh,Isurehopeit’snottheadministration.

There’sa--no,look,there’sasystemicproblem.Health-carecostsareontherisebecausethecoumersarenotinvolvedinthedecision-makingproce.Mosthealth-carecostsarecoveredbythirdparties.Andtherefore,theactualuserofhealthcareisnotthepurchaserofhealthcare.Andthere’snomarketforcesinvolvedwithhealthcare.

It’soneofthereasoI’mastrongbelieverinwhattheycallhealthsavingsaccounts.Theseareaccountsthatallowsomebodytobuyalow-premium,high-deductiblecatastrophicplanandcoupleitwithtax-freesavings.Busineescancontribute,employeescancontributeonacontractualbasis.Butthisisawaytomakesurepeopleareactuallyinvolvedwiththedecision-makingproceonhealthcare.

Secondly,Idobelievethelawsuits--Idon’tbelieve,Iknow--thatthelawsuitsarecausinghealth-carecoststoriseinAmerica.That’swhyI’msuchastrongbelieverinmedicalliabilityreform.

Inthelastdebate,myoonentsaidthoselawsuitsonlycausedthecosttogoupby1percent.Well,hedidn’tincludethedefeivepracticeofmedicinethatcoststhefederalgovernmentsome$28billionayearandcostsoursocietybetween$60billionand$100billionayear.

Thirdly,oneofthereasowhythere’sstillhighcostinmedicineisbecausethisis--theydon’tuseany informationtechnology.It’slikeifyoulookedatthe--it’stheequivalentofthebuggyandhorsedays,comparedtootherindustrieshereinAmerica.

Andso,we’vegottointroducehightechnologyintohealthcare.We’rebegiingtodoit.We’rechangingthelanguage.Wewanttheretobeelectronicmedicalrecordstocutdownonerror,aswellasreducecost.

Peopletellmethatwhenthehealth-carefieldisfullyintegratedwithinformationtechnology,it’llwringsome20percentofthecostoutofthesystem.

Andfinally,movinggenericdrugstothemarketquicker.

Andso,thosearefourwaystohelpcontrolthecostsinhealthcare.

SCHIEFFER:SenatorKerry?

KERRY:Thereasonhealth-carecostsaregettinghigher,oneoftheprincipalreasoisthatthisadministrationhasstoodinthewayofcommon-seeeffortsthatwouldhavereducedthecosts.Letmegiveyouaprimeexample.

IntheSenatewepaedtherightofAmericatoimportdrugsfromCanada.ButthepresidentandhisfriendstookitoutintheHouse,andnowyoudon’thavethatright.ThepresidentblockedyoufromtherighttohaveleexpeivedrugsfromCanada.

WealsowantedMedicaretobeabletonegotiatebulkpurchasing.TheVAdoesthat.TheVAprovideslower-costdrugstoourvetera.WecouldhavedonethatinMedicare.

MedicareispaidforbytheAmericantaxpayer.Medicarebelongstoyou.Medicareisforseniors,whomanyofthemareonfixedincome,toliftthemoutofpoverty.

Butratherthanhelpyou,thetaxpayer,havelowercost,ratherthanhelpseniorshaveleexpeivedrugs,thepresidentmadeitillegal--illegal--forMedicaretoactuallygooutandbargainforlowerprices.

Result:$139billionwindfallprofittothedrugcompaniescomingoutofyourpockets.That’salargepartofyour17percentincreaseinMedicarepremiums.

WhenI’mpresident,I’msendingthatbacktoCongreandwe’regoingtogetarealprescriptiondrugbenefit.

Now,wealsohavepeoplesickerbecausetheydon’thavehealthiurance.Sowhetherit’sdiabetesorcancer,theycometohoitalslateranditcostsAmericamore.

WegottohavehealthcareforallAmerica.

SCHIEFFER:Goahead,Mr.President.

BUSH:Ithinkit’simportant,sincehetalkedabouttheMedicareplan,hashebeenintheUnitedStatesSenatefor20years?Hehasnorecordonreformingofhealthcare.Norecordatall.

Heintroducedsome300billsandhe’spaedfive.

Norecordofleadership.

IcametoWashingtontosolveproblems.Iwasdeeplyconcernedaboutseniorshavingtochoosebetweenprescriptiondrugsandfood.AndsoIled.Andin20__,ourseniorswillgetaprescriptiondrugcoverageinMedicare.

SCHIEFFER:SenatorKerry?Thirtyseconds.

KERRY:Onceagain,thepresidentismisleadingAmerica.I’veactuallypaed56individualbillsthatI’vepersonallywrittenand,inadditiontothat,andnotalwaysundermyname,thereisamendmentsoncertainbills.

Butmoreimportantly,withreecttothequestionofnorecord,Ihelpedwrite--Ididwrite,Iwasoneoftheoriginalauthorsoftheearlychildhoodhealthcareandtheexpaionofhealthcarethatwedidinthemiddleofthe1990s.AndI’mveryproudofthat.

Sothepresident’swrong.

SCHIEFFER:Letmedirectthenextquestiontoyou,SenatorKerry,andagain,let’sstayonhealthcare.

Youhave,asyouhaveproposedandasthepresidenthascommentedontonight,proposedamaiveplantoextendhealth-carecoveragetochildren.You’realsotalkingaboutthegovernmentpickingupabigpartofthecatastrophicbillsthatpeoplegetatthehoital.

Andyouhavesaidthatyoucanpayforthisbyrollingbackthepresident’staxcutontheuer2percent.

Youheardthepresidentsayearliertonightthatit’sgoingtocostawholelotmoremoneythanthat.

I’djustaskyou,whereareyougoingtogetthemoney?

KERRY:Well,twoleadingnationalnewsnetworkshavebothsaid thepresident’scharacterizationofmyhealth-careplanisincorrect.Onecalleditfiction.Theothercalledituntrue.

Thefactisthatmyhealth-careplan,America,isverysimple.Itgivesyouthechoice.Idon’tforceyoutodoanything.It’snotagovernmentplan.Thegovernmentdoe’trequireyoutodoanything.Youchooseyourdoctor.Youchooseyourplan.

Ifyoudon’twanttotaketheofferoftheplanthatIwanttoputforward,youdon’thavedo.Youcankeepwhatyouhavetoday,keepahighdeductible,keephighpremiums,keepahighco-pay,keeplowbenefits.

ButIgotabetterplan.AndIdon’tthinkalotofpeoplearegoingtowanttokeepwhattheyhavetoday.

Here’swhatIdo:WetakeoverMedicaidchildrenfromthestatessothateverychildinAmericaiscovered.Andinexchange,ifthestateswantto--they’renotforcedto,theycanchooseto--theycoverindividualsupto300percentofpoverty.It’stheirchoice.

Ithinkthey’llchooseit,becauseit’sanetplusof$5billiontothem.

Weallowyou--ifyouchooseto,youdon’thaveto--butwegiveyoubroadercompetitiontoallowyoutobuyintothesamehealthcareplanthatsenatorsandcongremengivethemselves.Ifit’sgoodenoughforus,it’sgoodenoughforeveryAmerican.IbelievethatyourhealthcareisjustasimportantasanypoliticianinWashington,D.C.

Youwanttobuyintoit,youcan.Wegiveyoubroadercompetition.Thathellowerprices.

Inadditiontothat,we’regoingtoallowpeople55to64tobuyintoMedicareearly.Andmostimportantly,wegivesmallbusinea50percenttaxcreditsothatafterwelowerthecostsofhealthcare,theyalsoget,whetherthey’reself-employedorasmallbusine,alowercosttobeabletocovertheiremployees.

Now,whathaeiswhenyoubegintogetpeoplecoveredlikethat--foritanceindiabetes,ifyoudiagnosediabetesearly,youcouldsave$50billioninthehealthcaresystemofAmericabyavoidingsurgeryanddialysis.Itworks.AndI’mgoingtoofferittoAmerica.

SCHIEFFER:Mr.President?

BUSH:Inallduereect,I’mnotsosureit’scredibletoquoteleadingnewsorganizatioabout--oh,nevermind.Anyway,letmequotetheLewinreport.TheLewinreportisagroupoffolkswhoarenotpoliticallyaffiliated.Theyanalyzedthesenator’splan.Itcost$1.2trillion.

TheLewinreportaccuratelynotedthattherearegoingtobe20millionpeople,over20millionpeopleaddedtogovernment-controlledhealthcare.Itwouldbethelargestincreaseingovernmenthealthcareever.

IfyouraisetheMedicaidto300percent,itprovidesanincentiveforsmallbusineesnottoprovideprivateiurancetotheiremployees.Whyshouldtheyiuresomebodywhenthegovernment’sgoingtoiureitforthem?

It’sestimatedthat8millionpeoplewillgofromprivateiurancetogovernmentiurance.

Wehaveafundamentaldifferenceofopinion.Ithinkgovernment-runhealthwillleadtopoor-qualityhealth,willleadtorationing,willleadtolechoice.

Onceahealth-careprogramendsupinalineiteminthefederalgovernmentbudget,itleadstomorecontrols.

Andjustlookatothercountriesthathavetriedtohavefederallycontrolledhealthcare.Theyhavepoor-qualityhealthcare.

Ourhealth-caresystemistheenvyoftheworldbecausewebelieveinmakingsurethatthedecisioaremadebydoctorsandpatients,notbyofficialsinthenation’scapital.

SCHIEFFER:Senator?

KERRY:Thepresidentjustsaidthatgovernment-runhealthcareresultsinpoorquality.

Now,maybethatexplaiwhyheha’tfullyfundedtheVAandtheVAhoitalishavingtroubleandveteraarecomplaining.MaybethatexplaiwhyMedicarepatientsarecomplainingaboutbeingpushedoffofMedicare.Hedoe’tadequatelyfundit.

ButletmejustsaytoAmerica:Iamnotproposingagovernment-runprogram.That’snotwhatIhave.IhaveBlueCro/BlueShield.Senatorsandcongremenhaveawidechoice.Americ aoughttohaveittoo.

SCHIEFFER:Mr.President?

BUSH:TalkabouttheVA:We’veincreasedVAfundingby$22billioninthefouryearssinceI’vebeenpresident.That’stwicetheamountthatmypredeceorincreasedVAfunding.

Ofcoursewe’remeetingourobligationtoourvetera,andtheveteraknowthat.

We’reexpandingvetera’healthcarethroughoutthecountry.We’realigningfacilitieswheretheveteralivenow.Veteraaregettingverygoodhealthcareundermyadministration,andtheywillcontinuetodosoduringthenextfouryears.

SCHIEFFER:Mr.President,thenextquestionistoyou.WeallknowthatSocialSecurityisruingoutofmoney,andithastobefixed.Youhaveproposedtofixitbylettingpeopleputsomeofthemoneycollectedtopaybenefitsintoprivatesavingsaccounts.Butthecriticsaresayingthat’sgoingtomeanfinding$1trillionoverthenext10yearstocontinuepayingbenefitsasthoseaccountsarebeingsetup.

Sowheredoyougetthemoney?Areyougoingtohavetoincreasethedeficitbythatmuchover10years?

BUSH:First,letmemakesurethateveryseniorlisteningtodayunderstandsthatwhenwe’retalkingaboutreformingSocialSecurity,thatthey’llstillgettheirchecks.

Irememberthe20__campaign,peoplesaidifGeorgeW.getselected,yourcheckwillbetakenaway.Well,peoplegottheirchecks,andthey’llcontinuetogettheirchecks.

Thereisaproblemforouryoungsters,arealproblem.Andifwedon’tacttoday,theproblemwillbevaluedinthetrillio.AndsoIthinkweneedtothinkdifferently.We’llhonorourcommitmenttoourseniors.Butforourchildrenandourgrandchildren,weneedtohaveadifferentstrategy.

Andrecognizingthat,Icalledtogetheragroupofourfellowcitizetostudytheiue.ItwasacommitteechairedbythelateSenatorDanielPatrickMoynihanofNewYork,aDemocrat.Andtheycameupwithavarietyofideasforpeopletolookat.

Ibelievethatyoungerworkersoughttobeallowedtotakesomeoftheirownmoneyandputitinapersonalsavingsaccount,becauseIunderstandthattheyneedtogetbetterratesofreturnthantheratesofreturnbeinggiveninthecurrentSocialSecuritytrust.

AndthecompoundingrateofinteresteffectwillmakeitmorelikelythattheSocialSecuritysystemissolventforourchildrenandourgrandchildren.IwillworkwithRepublicaandDemocrats.It’llbeavitaliueinmysecondterm.ItisaniuethatIamwillingtotakeon,andsoI’llbringRepublicaandDemocratstogether.

Andwe’reofcoursegoingtohavetocoiderthecosts.ButIwanttowarnmyfellowcitize:Thecostofdoingnothing,thecostofsayingthecurrentsystemisOK,farexceedsthecostsoftryingtomakesurewesavethesystemforourchildren.

SCHIEFFER:SenatorKerry?

KERRY:YoujustheardthepresidentsaythatyoungpeopleoughttobeabletotakemoneyoutofSocialSecurityandputitintheirownaccounts.

Now,myfellowAmerica,that’saninvitationtodisaster.

TheCBOsaidveryclearlythatifyouweretoadoptthepresident’splan,therewouldbea$2trillionholeinSocialSecurity,becausetoday’sworkerspayintothesystemfortoday’sretirees.AndtheCBOsaid--that’stheCongreionalBudgetOffice;it’sbipartisan--theysaidthattherewouldhavetobeacutinbenefitsof25percentto40percent.

Now,thepresidenthasneverexplainedtoAmerica,ever,ha’tdoneittonight,wheredoesthetraitionalmoney,that$2trillion,comefrom?

He’salreadygot$3trillion,accordingtoTheWashingtonPost,ofexpeesthathe’sputonthelinefromhisconventionandthepromisesofthiscampaign,noneofwhicharepaidfor.Notoneofthemarepaidfor.

ThefactisthatthepresidentisdrivingthelargestdeficitsinAmericanhistory.He’sbrokenthepay-as-you-gorules.

Ihavearecordoffightingforfiscalreoibility.In1985,IwasoneofthefirstDemocrats--brokewithmyparty.Webalancedthebudgetin the’90s.Wepaiddownthedebtfortwoyears.

Andthat’swhatwe’regoingtodo.We’regoingtoprotectSocialSecurity.Iwillnotprivatizeit.Iwillnotcutthebenefits.Andwe’regoingtobefiscallyreoible.AndwewilltakecareofSocialSecurity.

SCHIEFFER:LetmejuststayonSocialSecuritywithanewquestionforSenatorKerry,because,SenatorKerry,youhavejustsaidyouwillnotcutbenefits.

AlanGreean,thechairmanoftheFederalReserve,saysthere’snowaythatSocialSecuritycanpayretireeswhatwehavepromisedthemunlewerecalibrate.

Whathe’ssuggesting,we’regoingtocutbenefitsorwe’regoingtohavetoraisetheretirementage.Wemayhavetotakesomeotherreform.Butifyou’vejustsaid,you’vepromisednochanges,doesthatmeanyou’rejustgoingtoleavethisasaproblem,anotherproblemforourchildrentosolve?

KERRY:Notatall.Aolutelynot,Bob.Thisisthesamethingweheard--remember,Iaearedon"MeetthePre"withTimRuertin1990-something.Weheardthesamething.Wefixedit.

Infact,weputtogethera$5.6trillionsurplusinthe’90sthatwasforthepurposeofsavingSocialSecurity.IfyoutakethetaxcutthatthepresidentoftheUnitedStateshasgiven--PresidentBushgavetoAmericainthetop1percentofAmerica--justthattaxcutthatwenttothetop1percentofAmericawouldhavesavedSocialSecurityuntiltheyear2075.

ThepresidentdecidedtogiveittothewealthiestAmericainataxcut.Now,AlanGreean,whoIthinkhasdoneaterrificjobinmonetarypolicy,suortsthepresident’staxcut.Idon’t.Isuortitforthemiddlecla,notthatpartofitthatgoestopeopleearningmorethan$200,000ayear.

AndwhenIrollitbackandweinvestinthethingsthatIhavetalkedabouttomoveoureconomy,we’regoingtogrowsufficiently,itwouldbegintocutthedeficitinhalf,andwegetbacktowherewewereattheendofthe1990swhenwebalancedthebudgetandpaiddownthedebtofthiscountry.

Now,wecandothat.

Now,iflateronafteraperiodoftimewefindthatSocialSecurityisintrouble,we’llpulltogetherthetopexpertsofthecountry.We’lldoexactlywhatwedidinthe1990s.Andwe’llmakewhateveradjustmentisneceary.

ButthefirstandmostimportantthingistostartcreatingjoinAmerica.Thejothepresidentiscreatingpay$9,000lethanthejothatwe’relosing.Andthisisthefirstpresidentin72yearstopresideoveraneconomyinAmericathathaslostjo,1.6millionjo.

Elevenotherpresidents--sixDemocratsandfiveRepublica--hadwars,hadreceio,hadgreatdifficultienoneofthemlostjothewaythispresidenthas.

IhaveaplantoputAmericabacktowork.Andifwe’refiscallyreoibleandputAmericabacktowork,we’regoingtofixSocialSecurity.

SCHIEFFER:Mr.President?

BUSH:HeforgottotellyouhevotedtotaxSocialSecuritybenefitsmorethanonetime.Ididn’thearanyplantofixSocialSecurity.Iheardmoreofthesame.

Hetalksaboutmiddle-clataxcuts.That’sexactlywherethetaxcutswent.Mostofthetaxcutswenttolow-andmiddle-incomeAmerica.Andnowthetaxcodeismorefair.Twentypercentoftheuer-incomepeoplepayabout80percentofthetaxesinAmericatodaybecauseofhowwestructuredthetaxcuts.Peoplelisteningoutthereknowthebenefitsofthetaxcutswepaed.Ifyouhaveachild,yougottaxrelief.Ifyou’remarried,yougottaxrelief.Ifyoupayanytaxatall,yougottaxrelief.Allofwhichwasoosedbymyoonent.

Andthetaxreliefwasimportanttourcoumptionandinvestmenttogetusoutofthisreceion.

Peopleneedtoremember:Sixmonthspriortomyarrival,thestockmarketstartedtogodown.Anditwasoneofthelargestdeclinesinourhistory.Andthenwehadareceionandwegotattacked,whichcostus1millionjo.

Butweacted.IledtheCongre.Wepaedtaxrelief.Andnowthiseconomyisgrowing.Weadded1.9millionnewjooverthelast13months.

Sure,there’smoreworktodo.But thewaytomakesureoureconomygrowsisnottoraisetaxesonsmall-busineowners.It’snottoincreasethescopeofthefederalgovernment.It’stomakesurewehavefiscalsanityandkeeptaxeslow.

SCHIEFFER:Let’sgotoanewquestion,Mr.President.

Igotmoree-mailthisweekonthisquestionthananyotherquestion.Anditisaboutimmigration.

I’mtoldthatatleast8,000peoplecroourbordersillegallyeveryday.Somepeoplebelievethisisasecurityiue,asyouknow.Somebelieveit’saneconomiciue.Someseeitasahuman-rightsiue.

Howdoyouseeit?Andwhatdoweneedtodoaboutit?

BUSH:Iseeitasaseriousproblem.Iseeitasasecurityiue,Iseeitasaneconomiciue,andIseeitasahuman-rightsiue.

We’reincreasingthebordersecurityoftheUnitedStates.We’vegot1,000moreBorderPatrolagentsonthesouthernborder.

We’reusingnewequipment.We’reusingunmaedvehiclestootpeoplecomingacro.

Andwe’llcontinuetodosooverthenextfouryears.It’sasubjectI’mveryfamiliarwith.Afterall,Iwasabordergovernorforawhile.

Manypeoplearecomingtothiscountryforeconomicreaso.They’recomingheretowork.Ifyoucanmake50centsintheheartofMexico,forexample,ormake$5hereinAmerica,$5.15,you’regoingtocomehereifyou’reworthyoursalt,ifyouwanttoputfoodonthetableforyourfamilies.Andthat’swhat’shaening.

Andsoinordertotakepreureofftheborders,inordertomakethebordersmoresecure,Ibelievethereoughttobeatemporaryworkercardthatallowsawillingworkerandawillingemployertomateup,solongasthere’snotanAmericanwillingtodothatjob,tojoinupinordertobeabletofulfilltheemployers’needs.

Thathasthebenefitofmakingsureouremployersaren’tbreakingthelawastheytrytofilltheirworkforceneeds.Itmakessurethatthepeoplecomingacrotheborderarehumanelytreated,thatthey’renotkeptintheshadowsofoursociety,thatthey’reabletogobackandforthtoseetheirfamilies.See,thecard,it’llhaveaperiodoftimeattachedtoit.

Italsomeaittakespreureofftheborder.Ifsomebodyiscomingheretoworkwithacard,itmeathey’renotgoingtohavetoeakacrotheborder.Itmeaourborderpatrolwillbemorelikelytobeabletofocusondoingtheirjob.

Now,it’sveryimportantforourcitizetoalsoknowthatIdon’tbelieveweoughttohaveamnesty.Idon’tthinkweoughttorewardillegalbehavior.Thereareplentyofpeoplestandinginlinetobecomeacitizen.Andweoughtnottocrowdthesepeopleaheadoftheminline.

Iftheywanttobecomeacitizen,theycanstandinline,too.

AndhereiswheremyoonentandIdiffer.InSeptember20__,hesuortedamnestyforillegalalie.

SCHIEFFER:Time’sup.

Senator?

KERRY:Letmejustaweronepartofthelastquestionquickly,andthenI’llcometoimmigration.

TheAmericanmiddle-clafamilyi’tmakingitrightnow,Bob.Andwhatthepresidentsaidaboutthetaxcutshasbeenwipedoutbytheincreaseinhealthcare,theincreaseingasoline,theincreaseintuitio,theincreaseinprescriptiondrugs.

Thefactis,thetake-homepayofatypicalAmericanfamilyasashareofnationalincomeislowerthanit’sbeensince1929.Andthetake-homepayoftherichest.1percentofAmericaisthehighestit’sbeensince1928.

UnderPresidentBush,themiddleclahasseentheirtaxburdengoupandthewealthiest’staxburdenhasgonedown.Nowthat’swrong.

Now,withreecttoimmigrationreform,thepresidentbrokehispromiseonimmigrationreform.Hesaidhewouldreformit.Fouryearslaterheisnowpromisinganotherplan.

Here’swhatI’lldo:Numberone,thebordersaremoreleakingtodaythantheywerebefore9/11.Thefactis,wehaven’tdonewhatweneedtodototoughenupourborders,andIwill.

Secondly,weneedaguest-workerprogram,butifit’sa llwehave,it’snotgoingtosolvetheproblem.

Thesecondthingweneedistocrackdownonillegalhiring.It’sagaitthelawintheUnitedStatestohirepeopleillegally,andweoughttobeenforcingthatlawproperly.

Andthirdly,weneedanearned-legalizationprogramforpeoplewhohavebeenhereforalongtime,stayedoutoftrouble,gotajob,paidtheirtaxes,andtheirkidsareAmerican.Wegottostartmovingthemtowardfullcitizehip,outoftheshadows.SCHIEFFER:Doyouwanttoreond,Mr.President?

BUSH:Well,tosaythatthebordersarenotasprotectedastheywerepriortoSeptemberthe11thshowshedoe’tknowtheborders.They’remuchbetterprotectedtodaythantheywerewhenIwasthegovernorofTexas.

Wehavemuchmoremaowerandmuchmoreequipmentthere.

Hejustdoe’tunderstandhowtheborderswork,evidently,tosaythat.Thatisanoutrageousclaim.

Andwe’llcontinuetoprotectourborders.We’recontinuingtoincreasemaowerandequipment.

SCHIEFFER:Senator?

KERRY:Fourthousandpeopleadayarecomingacrotheborder.

ThefactisthatwenowhavepeoplefromtheMiddleEast,allegedly,comingacrotheborder.

Andwe’renotdoingwhatweoughttodointermsofthetechnology.Wehaveiris-identificationtechnology.Wehavethumrint,fingerprinttechnologytoday.Wecanknowwhothepeopleare,thatthey’rereallythepeopletheysaytheyarewhentheycrotheborder.

Wecouldeeditup.Therearehugedelays.

Thefactisourbordersarenotassecureastheyoughttobe,andI’llmakethemsecure.

SCHIEFFER:Nextquestiontoyou,SenatorKerry.

Thegapbetweenrichandpoorisgrowingwider.Morepeoplearedroingintopoverty.Yettheminimumwagehasbeenstuckat,what,$5.15anhournowforaboutsevenyears.Isittimetoraiseit?

KERRY:Well,I’mgladyouraisedthatquestion.

It’slongoverduetimetoraisetheminimumwage.

And,America,thisisoneofthoseiuesthatseparatesthepresidentandmyself.

Wehavefoughttotrytoraisetheminimumwageinthelastyears.ButtheRepublicanleadershipoftheHouseandSenatewon’tevenletushaveavoteonit.We’renotallowedtovoteonit.Theydon’twanttoraisetheminimumwage.Theminimumwageisthelowestminimumwagevalueithasbeeninournationin50years.

Ifweraisetheminimumwage,whichIwilldooverseveralyearsto$7anhour,9.2millionwomenwhoaretryingtoraisetheirfamilieswouldearnanother$3,800ayear.

Thepresidenthasdenied9.2millionwomen$3,800ayear,buthedoe’thesitatetofightfor$136,000toamillionaire.

OnepercentofAmericagot$89billionlastyearinataxcut,butpeopleworkinghard,playingbytherules,tryingtotakecareoftheirkids,familyvalues,thatwe’resuosedtovaluesomuchinAmerica--I’mtiredofpoliticiawhotalkaboutfamilyvaluesanddon’tvaluefamilies.

Whatweneedtodoisraisetheminimumwage.Wealsoneedtoholdontoequalpay.Womenworkfor76centsonthedollarforthesameworkthatmendo.That’snotrightinAmerica.

Andwehadaninitiativethatwewereworkingontoraisewomen’spay.They’vecutitoff.They’vestoedit.Theydon’tenforcethesekindsofthings.

Now,Ithinkthatit’samatteroffundamentalrightthatifweraisetheminimumwage,15millionAmericawouldbepositivelyaffected.We’dputmoneyintothehandsofpeoplewhoworkhard,whoobeytherules,whoplayfortheAmericandream.

Andifwedidthat,we’dhavemorecoumptionabilityinAmerica,whichiswhatweneedrightnowinordertokickoureconomyintogear.Iwillfighttoothandnailtopatheminimumwage.

BUSH:Actually,MitchMcCoellhadaminimum-wageplanthatIsuortedthatwouldhaveincreasedtheminimumwage.

Butletmetalkaboutwhat’sreallyimportantfortheworkeryou’rereferringto.Andthat’stomakesuretheeducationsystemworks.It’stomakesurewerai sestandards.

Listen,theNoChildLeftBehindActisreallyajoactwhenyouthinkaboutit.TheNoChildLeftBehindActsays,"We’llraisestandards.We’llincreasefederalending.Butinreturnforextraending,wenowwantpeopletomeasure--statesandlocaljurisdictiotomeasuretoshowuswhetherornotachildcanreadorwriteoraddandsubtract."

Youcaotsolveaproblemunleyoudiagnosetheproblem.Andweweren’tdiagnosingproblems.Andthereforejustkidswerebeingshuffledthroughtheschool.

Andguewhowouldgetshuffledthrough?Childrenwhoseparentswouldn’teakEnglishasafirstlanguagejustmovethrough.

Manyier-citykidsjustmovethrough.We’vestoedthatpracticenowbymeasuringearly.Andwhenwefindaproblem,weendextramoneytocorrectit.

IrememberaladyinHouston,Texas,toldme,"Readingisthenewcivilright,"andshe’sright.Inordertomakesurepeoplehavejoforthe21stcentury,we’vegottogetitrightintheeducationsystem,andwe’rebegiingtocloseaminorityachievementgapnow.

Yousee,we’llneverbeabletocompeteinthe21stcenturyunlewehaveaneducationsystemthatdoe’tquitonchildren,aneducationsystemthatraisesstandards,aneducationthatmakessurethere’sexcellenceineveryclaroom.

SCHIEFFER:Mr.President,IwanttogobacktosomethingSenatorKerrysaidearliertonightandaskafollow-upofmyown.Hesaid--andthiswillbeanewquestiontoyou--hesaidthatyouhadneversaidwhetheryouwouldliketooverturnRoev.Wade.SoI’daskyoudirectly,wouldyouliketo?

BUSH:Whathe’saskingmeis,willIhavealitmustestformyjudges?Andtheaweris,no,Iwillnothavealitmustest.IwillpickjudgeswhowillinterprettheCotitution,butI’llhavenolitmustest.

SCHIEFFER:SenatorKerry,you’dliketoreond?

KERRY:Isthatanewquestionora30-secondquestion?

SCHIEFFER:That’sanewquestionforSenator--forPresidentBush.

KERRY:Whichtimelimit...

SCHIEFFER:Youhave90seconds.

KERRY:Thankyouverymuch.

Well,again,thepresidentdidn’tawerthequestion.

I’llaweritstraighttoAmerica.I’mnotgoingtoaointajudgetotheCourtwho’sgoingtoundoacotitutionalright,whetherit’stheFirstAmendment,ortheFifthAmendment,orsomeotherrightthat’sgivenunderourcourtstoday--undertheCotitution.AndIbelievethattherightofchoiceisacotitutionalright.

SoIdon’tintendtoseeitundone.

Clearly,thepresidentwantstoleaveinambivalenceorintendstoundoit.

Butletmegoastepfurther.WehavealongdistanceyettotravelintermsoffairneinAmerica.Idon’tknowhowyoucangoverninthiscountrywhenyoulookatNewYorkCityandyouseethat50percentoftheblackmalesthereareunemployed,whenyousee40percentofHianicchildren--ofblackchildreninsomecities--droingoutofhighschool.

AndyetthepresidentwhotalksaboutNoChildLeftBehindrefusedtofullyfund--by$28billion--thatparticularprogramsoyoucanmakeadifferenceinthelivesofthoseyoungpeople.

NowrighthereinArizona,thatdifferencewouldhavebeen$131milliontothestateofArizonatohelpitskidsbeabletohavebettereducationandtoliftthepropertytaxburdenfromitscitize.ThepresidentrenegedonhispromisetofundNoChildLeftBehind.

He’lltellyouhe’sraisedthemoney,andhehas.Buthedidn’tputinwhathepromised,andthatmakesadifferenceinthelivesofourchildren.

SCHIEFFER:Yes,sir?

BUSH:Twothings.One,heclearlyhasalitmustestforhisjudges,whichIdisagreewith.

Andsecondly,onlyaliberalsenatorfromMaachusettswouldsaythata49percentincreaseinfundingforeducationwasnotenough.

We’veincreasedfunds.Butmoreimportantly,we’vereformedthesystemtomakesurethatwesolveproblemsearly,beforethey’retoolate.

Hetalkeda bouttheunemployed.Aolutelywe’vegottomakesuretheygeteducated.

Hetalkedaboutchildrenwhoseparentsdon’teakEnglishasafirstlanguage?Aolutelywe’vegottomakesuretheygeteducated.

Andthat’swhattheNoChildLeftBehindActdoes.

SCHIEFFER:Senator?

KERRY:Youdon’tmeasureitbyapercentageincrease.Mr.President,youmeasureitbywhetheryou’regettingthejobdone.

Fivehundredthousandkidslostafter-schoolprogramsbecauseofyourbudget.

Now,that’snotinmygut.That’snotinmyvaluesystem,andcertainlynotsothatthewealthiestpeopleinAmericacanwalkawaywithanothertaxcut.

$89billionlastyeartothetop1percentofAmerica,butkidslosttheirafter-schoolprograms.Youbethejudge.

SCHIEFFER:Allright,let’sgotoanotherquestion.AnditistoSenatorKerry.

Youhavetwominutes,sir.

Senator,thelastdebate,PresidentBushsaidhedidnotfavoradraft.Youagreedwithhim.ButourNationalGuardandReserveforcesarebeingseverelystrainedbecausemanyofthemarebeingheldbeyondtheirenlistments.Someofthemsaythatit’saback-doordraft.

IsthereanyreliefthatcouldbeofferedtothesebraveAmericaandtheirfamilies?

Ifyoubecamepresident,SenatorKerry,whatwouldyoudoaboutthissituationofholdingNationalGuardandReservistsfortheseextendedperiodsoftimeandtheserepeatedcall-uthatthey’renowfacing?

KERRY:Well,Ithinkthefactthatthey’refacingtheserepeatedcall-u,someofthemtwoandthreedeployments,andthere’sastop-lopolicythatpreventspeoplefrombeingabletogetoutwhentheirtimewasup,isareflectionofthebadjudgmentthispresidentexercisedinhowhehasengagedintheworldanddeployedourforces.

Ourmilitaryisoverextended.Nineoutof10active-dutyArmydivisioareeitherinIraq,goingtoIraqorhavecomebackfromIraq.Onewayortheother,they’rewraedupinit.

Now,I’veproposedaddingtwoactive-dutydivisiotothearmedforcesoftheUnitedStates--onecombat,onesuort.

Inaddition,I’mgoingtodoublethenumberofecialForcessothatwecanfightamoreeffectivewaronterror,withlepreureontheNationalGuardandReserve.AndwhatIwouldliketodoisseetheNationalGuardandReservebedeployeddifferentlyhereinourowncountry.There’smuchwecandowiththemwithreecttohomelandsecurity.Weoughttobedoingthat.Andthatwouldrelieveanenormousamountofpreure.

ButthemostimportantthingtorelievethepreureonallofthearmedforcesisfranklytorunaforeignpolicythatrecognizesthatAmericaisstrongestwhenweareworkingwithrealalliances,whenwearesharingtheburdeoftheworldbyworkingthroughourstatesmahipatthehighestlevelsandourdiplomacytobringothernatiotoourside.

I’vesaiditbefore,Isayitagain:IbelievethepresidentbrokefaithtotheAmericanpeopleinthewaythathetookthisnationtowar.Hesaidhewouldworkthrougharealalliance.HesaidinCinciatiwewouldplancarefully,wewouldtakeeveryprecaution.Well,wedidn’t.Andtheresultisourforcestodayareoverextended.

Thefactisthathedidnotchoosetogotowarasalastresult.AndAmericanowispaying,already$120billion,upto$200billionbeforewe’refinishedandmuchmoreprobably.AndthatistheresultofthispresidenttakinghiseyeoffofOsamabinLaden.

SCHIEFFER:Mr.President?

BUSH:ThebestwaytotakethepreureoffourtrooistosucceedinIraq,istotrainIraqissotheycandothehardworkofdemocracy,istogivethemachancetodefendtheircountry,whichispreciselywhatwe’redoing.We’llhave125,000trootrainedbytheendofthisyear.

IremembergoingonanairplaneinBangor,Maine,tosaythankstothereservistsandGuardthatwereheadedoverseasfromTeeeeandNorthCarolina,Georgia.Someofthemhadbeentherebefore.

ThepeopleItalkedtotheiriritswerehigh.Theydidn’tviewtheirserviceasaback-doo rdraft.Theyviewedtheirserviceasanoortunitytoservetheircountry.

Myoonent,thesenator,talksaboutforeignpolicy.

InourfirstdebateheproposedAmericapaaglobaltest.Inordertodefendourselves,we’dhavetogetinternationalaroval.That’soneofthemajordifferenceswehaveaboutdefendingourcountry.

I’llworkwithallies.I’llworkwithfriends.We’llcontinuetobuildstrongcoalitio.ButIwillneverturnoverournational-securitydecisiotoleadersofothercountries.

We’llberesolute,we’llbestrong,andwe’llwageacompreheivewaragaittheterrorists.

SCHIEFFER:Senator?

KERRY:Ihaveneversuggestedatestwhereweturnoveroursecuritytoanynation.Infact,I’vesaidtheoosite:IwillneverturnthesecurityoftheUnitedStatesovertoanynation.Nonationwilleverhaveavetooverus.

ButIthinkitmakessee,IthinkmostAmericaintheirgutsknow,thatweoughttopaasortoftruthstandard.That’showyougainlegitimacywithyourowncountrypeople,andthat’showyougainlegitimacyintheworld.

ButI’llneverfailtoprotecttheUnitedStatesofAmerica.

BUSH:In1990,therewasavastcoalitionputtogethertorunSaddamHueinoutofKuwait.Theinternationalcommunity,theinternationalworldsaidthisistherightthingtodo,butwhenitcametimetoauthorizetheuseofforceontheSenatefloor,myoonentvotedagaittheuseofforce.

Aarentlyyoucan’tpaanytestunderhisvisionoftheworld.

SCHIEFFER:Mr.President,newquestion,twominutes.

YousaidthatifCongrewouldvotetoextendthebanonaaultweapo,thatyou’dsignthelegislation,butyoudidnothingtoencouragetheCongretoextendit.Whynot?

BUSH:Actually,Imademyintentio--mademyviewsclear.Ididthinkweoughttoextendtheaaultweapoban,andwastoldthefactthatthebillwasnevergoingtomove,becauseRepublicaandDemocratswereagaittheaaultweaponban,peopleofbothparties.Ibelievelaw-abidingcitizeoughttobeabletoownagun.Ibelieveinbackgroundchecksatgunshowsoranywheretomakesurethatgudon’tgetinthehandsofpeoplethatshouldn’thavethem.

Butthebestwaytoprotectourcitizefromguistoprosecutethosewhocommitcrimeswithgu.Andthat’swhyearlyinmyadministrationIcalledtheattorneygeneralandtheU.S.attorneysandsaid:Puttogetherataskforceallaroundthecountrytoprosecutethosewhocommitcrimeswithgu.Andtheprosecutioareupbyabout68percent--Ibelieve--isthenumber.

Neighborhoodsaresaferwhenwecrackdownonpeoplewhocommitcrimeswithgu.

Tome,that’sthebestwaytosecureAmerica.

SCHIEFFER:Senator?

KERRY:Ibelieveitwasafailureofpresidentialleadershipnottoreauthorizetheaaultweapoban.

Iamahunter.I’magunowner.I’vebeenahuntersinceIwasakid,12,13yearsold.AndIreecttheSecondAmendmentandIwillnottamperwiththeSecondAmendment.

ButI’lltellyouthis.I’malsoaformerlawenforcementofficer.Iranoneofthelargestdistrictattorney’sofficesinAmerica,oneofthetenlargest.Iputpeoplebehindbarsfortherestoftheirlife.I’vebrokenuporganizedcrime.Iknowsomethingaboutprosecuting.

AndmostofthelawenforcementagenciesinAmericawantedthataaultweapoban.Theydon’twanttogointoadrugbustandbefacinganAK-47.

IwashuntinginIowalastyearwithasherifffromoneofthecountiesthere,andhepointedtoahouseinbackofus,andsaid,"Seethehouseover?Wejustdidadrugbustaweekearlier,andtheguywearrestedhadanAK-47lyingonthebedrightbesidehim."

Becauseofthepresident’sdecisiontoday,lawenforcementofficerswillwalkintoaplacethatwillbemoredangerous.TerroristscannowcomeintoAmericaandgotoagunshowand,withoutevenabackgroundcheck,buyanaaultweapontoday.

Andthat’swhatOsamabinLaden’shandbooksaid,becausewecaptureditinAfgha nistan.Itencouragedthemtodoit.

SoIbelieveAmerica’slesafe.

IfTomDeLayorsomeoneintheHousesaidtome,"Sorry,wedon’thavethevotes,"I’dhavesaid,"Thenwe’regoingtohaveafight."

AndI’dhavetakenitouttothecountryandI’dhavehadeverylawenforcementofficerinthecountryvisitthosecongremen.We’dhavewonwhatBillClintonwon.

SCHIEFFER:Let’sgotoanewquestion.Foryou,SenatorKerry,twominutes.

Affirmativeaction:Doyouseeaneedforaffirmativeactionprograms,orhavewemovedfarenoughalongthatwenolongerneedtouseraceandgenderasafactorinschooladmiioandfederalandstatecontractsandsoon?

KERRY:No,Bob,regrettably,wehavenotmovedfarenoughalong.

AndIregrettosaythatthisadministrationhasevenblockedstethatcouldhelpusmovefurtheralong.I’llgiveyouanexample.

IservedontheSmallBusineCommitteeforalongtime.Iwaschairmanofitonce.NowI’mtheseniorDemocratonit.Weusedto--youknow,wehaveagoalthereforminorityset-asideprograms,totrytoencourageownershipinthecountry.Theydon’treachthosegoals.Theydon’tevenfighttoreachthosegoals.They’vetriedtoundothem.

Thefactisthatintoomanypartsofourcountry,westillhavediscrimination.Andaffirmativeactionisnotjustsomethingthataliestopeopleofcolor.SomepeoplehaveamistakenviewofitinAmerica.Italsoiswithreecttowomen,it’swithreecttoothereffortstotrytoreachoutandbeinclusiveinourcountry.

Ithinkthatwehavealongwaytogo,regrettably.Ifyoulookatwhat’shaened--we’vemadeprogre,Iwanttosaythatatthesametime.

DuringtheClintonyears,asyoumayrecall,therewasafightoveraffirmativeaction.Andthereweremanypeople,likemyself,whooosedquotas,whofelttherewereplaceswhereitwasoverreaching.Sowehadapolicycalled"Mendit,don’tendit."Wefixedit.

Andwefixeditforareason:becausetherearetoomanypeoplestillinthiscountrywhofeelthestarkresistanceofracism,andsowehaveadistancetotravel.Aspresident,Iwillmakecertainwetravelit.

Now,letmejustsharesomething.Thispresidentisthefirstpresidentever,Ithink,nottomeetwiththeNAACP.Thisisapresidentwhoha’tmetwiththeBlackCongreionalCaucus.Thisisapresidentwhohasnotmetwiththecivilrightsleadershipofourcountry.

Ifapresidentdoe’treachoutandbringpeopleinandbeinclusive,thenhowarewegoingtogetoverthosebarriers?Iseethataspartofmyjobaspresident,andI’llmakemybestefforttodoit.

SCHIEFFER:Mr.President?

BUSH:Well,firstofall,itisjustnottruethatIhaven’tmetwiththeBlackCongreionalCaucus.ImetwiththeBlackCongreionalCaucusattheWhiteHouse.

Andsecondly,likemyoonent,Idon’tagreeweoughttohavequotas.Iagree,weshouldn’thavequotas.

Butweoughttohaveanaggreiveefforttomakesurepeopleareeducated,tomakesurewhentheygetoutofhighschoolthere’sPellGrantsavailableforthem,whichiswhatwe’vedone.We’veexpandedPellGrantsbyamillionstudents.

DoyourealizetodayinAmerica,weend$73billiontohelp10millionlow-andmiddle-incomefamiliesbetteraffordcollege?

That’stheacceIbelieveisneceary,istomakesureeverychildleartoread,write,addandsubtractearly,tobeabletobuildonthateducationbygoingtocollegesotheycanstarttheircareerswithacollegediploma.

Ibelievethebestwaytohelpoursmallbusineesisnotonlythroughsmall-busineloa,whichwehaveincreasedsinceI’vebeenthepresidentoftheUnitedStates,buttouundlegovernmentcontractssopeoplehaveachancetobeabletobidandreceiveacontracttohelpgettheirbusinegoing.

Minorityownershipofbusineesareup,becausewecreatedanenvironmentfortheentrepreneurialirittobestrong.

Ibelievepartofahopefulsocietyisoneinwhic hsomebodyowsomething.TodayinAmericamoreminoritiesownahomethaneverbefore.Andthat’shopeful,andthat’spositive.

SCHIEFFER:Mr.President,let’sgotoanewquestion.

Youwereaskedbeforetheinvasion,oraftertheinvasion,ofIraqifyou’dcheckedwithyourdad.AndIbelieve,Idon’trememberthequoteexactly,butIbelieveyousaidyouhadcheckedwithahigherauthority.

Iwouldliketoaskyou,whatpartdoesyourfaithplayonyourpolicydecisio?

First,myfaithplaysalot--abigpartinmylife.Andthat’s,whenIwasaweringthatquestion,whatIwasreallysayingtothepersonwasthatIprayalot.AndIdo.

Andmyfaithisavery--it’sverypersonal.Iprayforstrength.Iprayforwisdom.Iprayforourtrooinharm’sway.Iprayformyfamily.Iprayformylittlegirls.

ButI’mmindfulinafreesocietythatpeoplecanworshipiftheywanttoornot.You’reequallyanAmericanifyouchoosetoworshipanalmightyandifyouchoosenotto.

Ifyou’reaChristian,JeworMuslim,you’reequallyanAmerican.That’sthegreatthingaboutAmerica,istherighttoworshipthewayyouseefit.

Prayerandreligionsustainme.Ireceivecalmneinthestormsofthepresidency.

Ilovethefactthatpeopleprayformeandmyfamilyallaroundthecountry.Somebodyaskedmeonetime,"Well,howdoyouknow?"Isaid,"Ijustfeelit."

Religionisanimportantpart.Ineverwanttoimposemyreligiononanybodyelse.

ButwhenImakedecisio,Istandonprinciple,andtheprinciplesarederivedfromwhoIam.

Ibelieveweoughttoloveourneighborlikeweloveourself,asmanifestedinpublicpolicythroughthefaith-basedinitiativewherewe’veunleashedthearmiesofcompaiontohelphealpeoplewhohurt.

IbelievethatGodwantseverybodytobefree.That’swhatIbelieve.

Andthat’sbeenpartofmyforeignpolicy.InAfghanistan,IbelievethatthefreedomthereisagiftfromtheAlmighty.AndIcan’ttellyouhowencouragedIamtoseefreedomonthemarch.

AndsomyprinciplesthatImakedecisioonareapartofme,andreligionisapartofme.

SCHIEFFER:SenatorKerry?

KERRY:Well,Ireecteverythingthatthepresidenthassaidandcertainlyreecthisfaith.Ithinkit’simportantandIshareit.IthinkthathejustsaidthatfreedomisagiftfromtheAlmighty.

EverythingisagiftfromtheAlmighty.AndasImeasurethewordsoftheBible--andwealldo;differentpeoplemeasuredifferentthings--theKoran,theTorah,or,youknow,NativeAmericawhogavemeableingtheotherdayhadtheirownecialseeofcoectednetoahigherbeing.Andpeopleallfindtheirwaystoexpreit.

Iwastaught--IwenttoachurchschoolandIwastaughtthatthetwogreatestcommandmentsare:LovetheLord,yourGod,withallyourmind,yourbodyandyoursoul,andloveyourneighborasyourself.Andfrankly,Ithinkwehavealotmorelovingofourneighbortodointhiscountryandonthisplanet.

WehaveaseparateandunequalschoolsystemintheUnitedStatesofAmerica.There’soneforthepeoplewhohave,andthere’soneforthepeoplewhodon’thave.Andwe’restrugglingwiththattoday.

AndthepresidentandIhaveadifferenceofopinionabouthowweliveoutourseeofourfaith.

ItalkedaboutitearlierwhenItalkedabouttheworksandfaithwithoutworksbeingdead.

Ithinkwe’vegotalotmoreworktodo.Andaspresident,Iwillalwaysreecteverybody’srighttopracticereligionastheychoose--ornottopractice--becausethat’spartofAmerica.

SCHIEFFER:SenatorKerry,after9/11--andthisisanewquestionforyou--itseemedtomethatthecountrycametogetherasI’veneverseenitcometogethersinceWorldWarII.Butsomeofthatseemstohavemeltedaway.Ithinkit’sfairtosaywe’vebecomeprettypolarized,perhabecauseofthepoliticalseason.

Butifyouwereelectedpresident,orwhoeveriselectedpresident,willyousetapriorityint ryingtobringthenationbacktogether?Orwhatwouldbeyourattitudeonthat?

KERRY:Verymuchso.

Letmepayacomplimenttothepresident,ifImay.Ithinkinthosedaysafter9/11,Ithoughtthepresidentdidaterrificjob.AndIreallywasmoved,aswellasimpreed,bytheeechthathegavetotheCongre.

AndIthinkthehugTomDaschlegavehimatthatmomentwasaboutasgenuineaseeoftherebeingnoDemocrats,noRepublica,wewerealljustAmerica.That’swherewewere.

That’snotwherewearetoday.Iregrettosaythatthepresidentwhocalledhimselfauniter,notadivider,isnowpresidingoverthemostdividedAmericaintherecentmemoryofourcountry.I’veneverseensuchideologicalsqualesintheCongreoftheUnitedStates.I’veneverseenmembersofapartylockedoutofmeetingsthewaythey’relockedouttoday.

Wehavetochangethat.Andaspresident,Iamcommittedtochangingthat.Idon’tcareiftheideacomesfromtheothersideorthisside.Ithinkwehavetocometogetherandworktochangeit.

AndI’vedonethat.Over20yearsintheUnitedStatesSenate,I’veworkedwithJohnMcCain,who’ssittinghere,I’veworkedwithothercolleagues.I’vereachedacrotheaisle.I’vetriedtofindthecommonground,becausethat’swhatmakesusstrongasAmerica.

AndifAmericatrustmewiththepresidency,Icanpledgetoyou,wewillhavethemostsignificanteffort,openly--notsecretmeetingsintheWhiteHousewithecialinterests,notideologicallydriveneffortstopushpeopleaside--butagenuineefforttotrytorestoreAmerica’shopeandpoibilitiesbybringingpeopletogether.

Andoneofthewayswe’regoingtodoitis,I’mgoingtoworkwithmyfriend,JohnMcCain,tofurthercampaignfinancereformsowegettheseincredibleamountsofmoneyoutofthesystemandopenituptoaveragepeople,soAmericaisreallyrepresentedbythepeoplewhomakeupAmerica.

SCHIEFFER:Mr.President?

BUSH:MybiggestdisaointmentinWashingtonishowpartisanthetownis.IhadarecordofworkingwithRepublicaandDemocratsasthegovernorofTexas,andIwashopefulI’dbeabletodothesamething.

Andwemadegoodprogreearlyon.TheNoChildLeftBehindAct,incrediblyenough,wasgoodworkbetweenmeandmyadministrationandpeoplelikeSenatorTedKeedy.

AndweworkedtogetherwithDemocratstorelievethetaxburdenonthemiddleclaandallwhopaytaxesinordertomakesurethiseconomycontinuestogrow.

ButWashingtonisatoughtown.AndthewayIviewitisthere’salotofentrenchedecialintereststhere,peoplewhoare,youknow,ononesideoftheiueoranotherandtheyendenormoussumsofmoneyandtheyconvincedifferentsenatorstotauttheirwayordifferentcongrementotalkabouttheiriue,andtheydigin.

I’llcontinue,inthefouryears,tocontinuetotrytoworktodoso.

Myoonentsaidthisisabitterlydividedtime.Prettydividedinthe20__election.Soinotherwords,it’sprettydividedduringthe1990saswell.

We’rejustinaperiod--we’vegottoworktobringit--myoonentkeementioningJohnMcCain,andI’mgladhedid.JohnMcCainisformeforpresidentbecauseheunderstandsIhavetherightviewinwiingthewaronterrorandthatmyplanwillsucceedinIraq.AndmyoonenthasgotaplanofretreatanddefeatinIraq.

SCHIEFFER:We’vecome,gentlemen,toourlastquestion.AnditoccurredtomeasIcametothisdebatetonightthatthethreeofussharesomething.Allthreeofusaresurroundedbyverystrongwomen.We’reallmarriedtostrongwomen.Eachofushavetwodaughtersthatmakeusveryproud.

I’dliketoaskeachofyou,whatisthemostimportantthingyou’velearnedfromthesestrongwomen?

BUSH:Tolistentothem.

(LAUGHTER)

Tostandupstraightandnotscowl.

(LAUGHTER)

Ilovethestrongwomenaroundme.Ican’ttellyouhowmuchIlovemywifeandourdaughters.

Iam--youknowit’sreallyinteresting.Itell thepeopleonthecampaigntrail,whenIaskedLauratomarryme,shesaid,"Fine,justsolongasIneverhavetogiveaeech."Isaid,"OK,you’vegotadeal."Fortunately,shedidn’tholdmetothatdeal.Andshe’soutcampaigningalongwithourgirls.AndsheeaksEnglishalotbetterthanIdo.Ithinkpeopleunderstandwhatshe’ssaying.

Buttheyseeacompaionate,strong,greatfirstladyinLauraBush.Ican’ttellyouhowluckyIam.WhenImetherinthebackyardatJoeandJanO’Neill’sinMidland,Texas,itwastheclaicbackyardbarbecue.O’Neillsaid,"Comeonover.Ithinkyou’llfindsomebodywhomightinterestyou."SoIsaidallright.Boedoverthere.Therewasonlyfourofusthere.Andnotonlydidsheinterestme,Igueyouwouldsayitwasloveatfirstsight.

SCHIEFFER:SenatorKerry?

KERRY:Well,IguethepresidentandyouandIarethreeexamplesofluckypeoplewhomarriedup.

(LAUGHTER)

Andsomewouldsaymaybememoresothanothers.

(LAUGHTER)

ButIcantakeit.

(LAUGHTER)

CanIsay,ifIcouldjustsayawordaboutawomanthatyoudidn’taskabout,butmymompaedawayacoupleyearsago,justbeforeIwasdecidingtorun.Andshewasinthehoital,andIwentintotalktoherandtellherwhatIwasthinkingofdoing.

Andshelookedatmefromherhoitalbedandshejustlookedatmeandshesaid,"Remember:integrity,integrity,integrity."Thosearethethreewordsthatsheleftmewith.

Andmydaughtersandmywifearepeoplewhojustarefilledwiththatseeofwhat’sright,what’swrong.

Theyalsokickmearound.Theykeepmehonest.Theydon’tletmegetawaywithanything.Icansometimestakemyselftooseriously.Theysurelydon’tletmedothat.

AndI’mbleed,asIthinkthepresidentisbleed,asIsaidlasttime.I’vewatchedhimwiththefirstlady,whoIadmireagreatdeal,andhisdaughters.He’sagreatfather.AndIthinkwe’rebothverylucky.

SCHIEFFER:Well,gentlemen,thatbringsustotheclosingstatements.

SenatorKerry,Ibelieveyou’refirst.

KERRY:MyfellowAmerica,asyouheardfromBobSchiefferamomentago,Americaisbeingtestedbydivision.Morethanever,weneedtobeunitedasacountry.

And,likeFranklinRoosevelt,Idon’tcarewhetheranideaisaRepublicanideaoraDemocratidea.IjustcarewhetheritworksforAmericaandwhetherit’sgoingtomakeusstronger.

Thesearedangeroustimes.IbelieveIoffertested,strongleadershipthatcancalmthewatersofthetroubledworld.AndIbelievethatwecantogetherdothingsthatarewithinthegraofAmerica.

Wecanliftourschoolsup.Wecancreatejothatpaymorethanthejowe’relosingoverseas.WecanhavehealthcareforallAmerica.Wecanfurtherthecauseofequalityinournation.

Letmejustmakeitclear:Iwillneverallowanycountrytohaveavetooveroursecurity.JustasIfoughtforourcountryasayoungman,withthesamepaionIwillfighttodefendthisnationthatIlove.

And,withfaithinGodandwithconvictioninthemiionofAmerica,Ibelievethatwecanreachhigher.Ibelievewecandobetter.

Ithinkthegreatestpoibilitiesofourcountry,ourdreamsandourhopes,areouttherejustwaitingforustograbontothem.AndIaskyoutoembarkonthatjourneywithme.

Iaskyouforyourtrust.Iaskyouforyourhelp.Iaskyoutoallowmetheprivilegeofleadingthisgreatnationofours,ofhelpingustobestrongerhereathomeandtobereectedagainintheworldand,mostofall,tobesaferforever.

Thankyou.Goodnight.AndGodbletheUnitedStatesofAmerica.

SCHIEFFER:Mr.President?

BUSH:IntheOvalOffice,there’sapaintingbyafriendofLauraandminenamed--byTomLee.Andit’saWestTexaspainting,apaintingofamountainscene.

Andhesaidthisaboutit.

Hesaid,"SarahandIliveontheeastsideofthemountain.It’sthesunriseside,notthesuetside.It’sthesidetoseethedayt hatiscoming,nottoseethedaythatisgone."

Ilovetheoptimisminthatpainting,becausethat’showIfeelaboutAmerica.Andwe’vebeenthroughalottogetherduringthelast33/4years.We’vecomethroughareceion,astockmarketdecline,anattackonourcountry.

Andyet,becauseofthehardworkoftheAmericanpeopleandgoodpolicies,thiseconomyisgrowing.Overthenextfouryears,we’llmakesuretheeconomycontinuestogrow.

Wereformedourschoolsystem,andnowthere’sanachievementgapinAmericathat’sbegiingtoclose.Overthenextfouryears,we’llcontinuetoiistonexcellenceineveryclaroominAmericasothatourchildrenhaveachancetorealizethegreatpromiseofAmerica.

Overthenextfouryears,we’llcontinuetoworktomakesurehealthcareisavailableandaffordable.

Overthenextfouryears,we’llcontinuetorallythearmiesofcompaion,tohelphealthehurtthatexistsinsomeofourcountry’sneighborhoods.

I’moptimisticthatwe’llwinthewaronterror,butIunderstanditrequiresfirmresolveandclearpurpose.Wemustneverwaverinthefaceofthisenemythat--theseideologuesofhate.

Andaswepursuetheenemywhereveritexists,we’llalsoreadfreedomandliberty.Wegotgreatfaithintheabilityoflibertytotraformsocieties,toconvertahostileworldtoapeacefulworld.

MyhopeforAmericaisaproerousAmerica,ahopefulAmericaandasaferworld.

Iwanttothankyouforlisteningtonight.

I’maskingforyourvote.

Godbleyou.

SCHIEFFER:Thankyou,Mr.President.

Thankyou,SenatorKerry.

Well,thatbringsthesedebatestoaclose,butthecampaigngoeson.

IwanttowishbothofyoutheverybestofluckbetweennowandElectionDay.

That’sitforusfromArizonaStateUniversityinTempe,Arizona.I’mBobSchiefferatCNews.

Goodnight,everyone.

(ALAUSE)